Thanks for sharing your thought on how the Democrats should stop spending their time pointing fingers on why we lost this election and what went wrong. You’re correct. Now’s the time for Democrats to forget the past band together to do a better job in our messaging and communication in the future. We must message and communicate the Democratic Party as the “change party” and the candidates as “change candidates”. Our message should be loud and clear and communicate solutions in solving the everyday issues that affect the lives of all of the voting public. We didn’t do that in 2024 and must right the course in order to succeed in the Midterms and beyond.
You are smart and directed. I hope you have consensus on this and continue to speak loudly. I guess we will have to wait until people can think straight. For me, I am hosting an alt-inauguration party for my people. We’re prepared to share emails to protest to our representatives when we can be a bigger voice.
The 'big tent' argument Brian is making here is absolutely correct. In fact, Kamala and Tim practiced the big tent in their campaign. But 'Big Tent' is only one of the two key strategies we must adopt. The second Brian articulated earlier; we MUST expand our outreach channels to focus on those people in MAGA silos of information that are not being reached by mainstream media. MAGA has done this very effectively and the statistics The Bulwark produced for how late deciders broke primarily for Trump were primarily folks that are otherwise disinterested in politics and don't follow the 'news' of mainstream channels. Today and in this last election, we are NOT reaching any of those folks. This means we have to harness alternative media channels like Brian, like the Bulwark, like Democracy Docket but ALSO channels that the folks that voted MAGA would watch. Like the 'big tent' in politics, we need to build a 'big tent' of media to reach them. That means we have to either build those new channels ourselves or become present on them in some consistent and widespread way. A clear example of why this is essential is again surveys that show that those folks that voted MAGA did not feel that the Dems have done anything for them and the the Dems are a group of intellectuals that look down their noses at them. The Biden administration Infrastructure bill, it's huge success creating jobs and bringing down inflation better than any other country did not get any recognition among many of the millions that voted MAGA. Democratic real help to these people was not effectively sold to them as having happened.
You(and BTC) nailed it, Marcus! Disinformation cost us the election, and it's going to get worse with MAGA in charge. Any mainstream media that doesn't toe Trump's line will be silenced.
I'm a naval historian who's area of expertise is the German navy in WWI and WWII. Trump and MAGA are taking instructions right out of the NAZI rule book; theirs is the Joseph Goebbels Big Lie thesis: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” A second NAZI thesis that Trump is keen to adopt is the Hitler Oath. Trump's enthusiasm for Hitler's generals was a product of the oath he required all German military swear, not to the German state but to himself; "I swear to you, Adolf Hitler, as Führer and Chancellor of the German Reich, that I will be loyal and brave. I pledge obedience unto death to you and those you appoint to lead. So help me God." The oath was renewed publicly at an annual ceremony.
It's a tragedy that despite tRumPutin's dyslexia and lack of interest toward knowledge in general, he chose to study Hitler and how he took control of his country. He doesn't want to use the power to help or improve the country in any way; he only wants power for its own sake, and to enrich himself. Typical of all malignant narcissist dictators, not only Hitler. I'm sure his "friendship" with Putin is the type of mentor & protégé relationship that benefits them both. It will be very revealing to see who they include in their authoritarian club.
Great observation Paula! We are not surprised are we? The only questions now that the new Hitler is in fact in power, whether the remaining democratic institutions in our country will be able to hold back the actual installation of fascist structures and repression. We are now living the greatest threat to our Constitutional system of government since the Civil War.
Hey Brian, I hate like hell to say this, but I really think the reason those 16M voters who went for Biden in 2020 that didn't come out for Harris may be as simple (and utterly dismaying) as skin complexion and gender.
Trump won on hate and discontent.
Harris ran a stellar campaign, she said all of the right things that needed to be said, she had all of the right stuff for most Democrats and even a handful of Republicans. I thought she was going to blow this election clean out of the water.
The vote should have been an open shut case to just keep the most unqualified President ever out of office for the good of the country.
But both 2016 and 2024 have one thing in common- a woman running for President. And one was a black woman at that.
I am disgusted that the USA cannot do better handling it's prejudice and bigotry.
I truly hate to think I am even remotely correct; but the election was obviously NOT about issues and policies.
For far too many Americans it was nothing more than prejudice.
Couldn't agree more Brian - the debrief on the election is exhausting and mostly unhelpful. Your core belief about the need for loud Dem mouthpieces is what I'm focusing on - we have to get our awesome message to reach farther that to us political geeks. You're a leader in this!
I could not agree more, Brian. I live in Washington State and am proud of my state's liberal bona fides. The way Democrats criticize Marie Glusencamp-Perez often makes me cringe. Sure, I wish she were as liberal as I am. But she votes the way she does because she MUST to be elected. Now that she has defeated one of the vilest MAGA candidates in the country--twice, by a larger margin the second time than the first, and in one of the few districts here that went for trump--maybe Democrats will give her some grace (and breathing space). She's young, she's smart, she's articulate--and she knows how to convince younger people without college degrees that there is a place for them in the Democratic Party.
Well said. Purity doesn't get things passed. Democracy is a dialogue: Democrats welcome the LOYAL Opposition. Loyal means working under law in the true sprit of the Constitution.
Very well said, Mr. Cohen. Circular firing squads don't help get our coalition back on track. Worse (pardon the mixed metaphor), they encourage Trumplicans to pour salt into our (self-inflicted) wounds.
OMG. I want to shout this from the roof tops. THIS is why democrats can't get it together and it's just become even worse with the younger generations. I had this argument with my daughter when she refused to vote for Hillary because "there were too many things that bothered her" and AGAIN this election because of Kamala's refusal to speak out ffor Palestinians. I tried to explain that we are not every single person going to have the perfect candidate for us bit we damned sure know who the candidate we DON'T want so she refused to vote altogether.
Now, my 11 year old granddaughter will pay the cost for the intolerance of her mixed race, gay mother. 😪
I'm getting increasingly frustrated with how small the Overton Window is. This slow train wreck of a civilization is grinding down in a death spiral, while a few work feverishly to get the attention of adolescent mobs seeking attention for its own sake. The darkness descends and we're lighting candles.
73 years old here. Just before I was drafted I became extremely political. Go figure. I have voted for the corporate Reagan Democrat type candidate that the establishment Democrat Party has given us. I have religiously voted for them even though they stink. You know this party used to at least pretend really they were the party of the working class. But the Reagan Democrat Party has left people like me behind. Bernie Sanders AOC and a handful of others are the only ones that espoused the Democratic party that I was raised on. And a bunch of you younger folks seem to think we should make friends with the Nazis and understand them. You know be tolerant. That is all that our Democratic Leadership has done for the last four decades. Meanwhile the party has moved incrementally to the right with every step the right wing has moved further towards fascism/nazism / oligarchy/theocracy.
We lost because Clinton Obama Biden and candidate Harris are only in touch with their corporate donors and trying to be friends with their hated enemy across the aisle. And they started the BS that Biden is the most Progressive president in history. Absolute nonsense. The only time the Democratic establishment reaches out is about 3 months before a serious presidential election. Maybe you remember Obama trying to make a grand bargain by giving the right wing everything they wanted. They were too power hungry to agree. Obama spent four years bending over for the right wing . In his second term he politely agreed that that may have been a mistake and then continued doing so . Obama a Reagan democrat, didn't let the Bush senior tax cuts for the oligarchy expire. Obama , Clinton and Biden all pretended to be for the public school system all the while supporting all kinds of monies going to Charter Schools and private schools . They wholeheartedly support the religious Taliban in this country . Why else would they continue to go to the families National Prayer Breakfast Etc. I remember clearly when Obama came out and said he just wasn't willing to give Folk the same rights as heterosexual folks. Clinton Obama and Biden have all been willing to cut Social Security Medicare and any of the other insurance funds that we invest in for the people.
Biden reluctantly decided to throw a bone of a minuscule relief of some student debt that would have taken the moving of mountains for people to actually qualify for. He had to be dragged Kicking and Screaming to that. Now I know because I'm a realist, that the Supreme Court is not going to allow anything that benefits the 99%. Alito famously announced that he would never rule positively for anything that benefited the Democrats.
So let's just be tolerant pay attention to what the Nazis and theocrats want and let them lead us into the light, right?
When I vote for/elect a Democrat, I expect they rule as a Democrat. Just like the right wing rules like right Wingers.
Why should any of us who aren't blue dogs, expect our leadership to rule as a republican light?
As an example, embracing Liz Cheney was a mistake of epic proportions and all too familiar behavior from the Reagan Democrat power structure. The Reagan democrats continually pursue the Unicorn of a significant amount of right Wingers who are going to vote for Democrats. They spend more time attacking progressives than they do their friends across the aisle. Let me tell you that tolerating their intolerance has been a epic mistake. And now Brian and many other Talking Heads are promoting that. The right wing played the long game. Decades long. And they won. There is no taking back the country without serious intervention. And I can tell by the posters on this forum that they don't take that seriously. The one and only thing that will save us is if Biden immediately comes out and says because of National Security issues he has ordered the arrest Trump and every other right winger who participated in the Insurrection and their funding billionaires. And that includes the Supreme Court. The Democrats should have never let them get away with their second attempt or third attempt at a coup. I hear a lot about bringing up the past. The past is important. The right Wingers tried to destroy FDR. The Supreme Court gave George Bush Jr AKA mini Trump the presidency. And now they have ruled that presidents have immunity and could order an Insurrection because they felt it was best for the country. Knock knock? Anybody getting the message yet.
The Democratic Leadership never misses an opportunity to not message. They could have spent the last four or five decades playing the long game in the red States aka the Confederacy, so that we got a power structure in those States. But no. As I said before, they keep trying to reach out to right Wingers while pushing progressives away. Progressives who are the real old Democrats who want a party of the working class are considered extremists by all you Center Reagan democrats.
Paradox of tolerance
The paradox of tolerance was described by Karl Popper in 1945. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant.
"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."
Good point about the purity test for a diverse big tent diverse of thought is important. In all these postmortem from you and other will be good to add analysis about losing four million from one election to the next.
Even looking at our own individual behaviour, there is usually more than one reason why we make the choices we do. You may go to a gym to be healthier, to lose weight, to look better, and to meet people. When studying a group of people it is even more obvious that there is rarely only one reason that motivates choices. The larger and more diverse the group, the more reasons there are. Misinformation is a big one that must be addressed, pro or anti on various issues, no doubt misogyny and racism and ageism. A little bit of this and a little bit of that.
But the thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the effect of fear and anxiety. I noticed people asking on various platforms, “What happens if Trump loses, what can he do?” Images of the January 6 attack on the Capitol, beating officers with flag poles, the noose waiting for Pence were still being shown on mainstream and social media; every report on Ukraine and Garza showing buildings turned to rubble, children’s’ swaddled bodies, food lines; trump saying it would be bloody if he lost, magas saying it was time for a civil war; trump talking about nuclear war and putin talking about using nuclear weapons on Ukraine. Lots of trump threats telling people to be afraid.
Did people ask themselves which am I more afraid of: what he might do if he wins or what he could do if he loses? For people living in an anxious age that could be a paralyzing choice to make. And so they stayed home.
Thanks for sharing your thought on how the Democrats should stop spending their time pointing fingers on why we lost this election and what went wrong. You’re correct. Now’s the time for Democrats to forget the past band together to do a better job in our messaging and communication in the future. We must message and communicate the Democratic Party as the “change party” and the candidates as “change candidates”. Our message should be loud and clear and communicate solutions in solving the everyday issues that affect the lives of all of the voting public. We didn’t do that in 2024 and must right the course in order to succeed in the Midterms and beyond.
You are smart and directed. I hope you have consensus on this and continue to speak loudly. I guess we will have to wait until people can think straight. For me, I am hosting an alt-inauguration party for my people. We’re prepared to share emails to protest to our representatives when we can be a bigger voice.
PS. I am now an official supporter. Please let us know how you and Glenn Kirschner are doing.
The 'big tent' argument Brian is making here is absolutely correct. In fact, Kamala and Tim practiced the big tent in their campaign. But 'Big Tent' is only one of the two key strategies we must adopt. The second Brian articulated earlier; we MUST expand our outreach channels to focus on those people in MAGA silos of information that are not being reached by mainstream media. MAGA has done this very effectively and the statistics The Bulwark produced for how late deciders broke primarily for Trump were primarily folks that are otherwise disinterested in politics and don't follow the 'news' of mainstream channels. Today and in this last election, we are NOT reaching any of those folks. This means we have to harness alternative media channels like Brian, like the Bulwark, like Democracy Docket but ALSO channels that the folks that voted MAGA would watch. Like the 'big tent' in politics, we need to build a 'big tent' of media to reach them. That means we have to either build those new channels ourselves or become present on them in some consistent and widespread way. A clear example of why this is essential is again surveys that show that those folks that voted MAGA did not feel that the Dems have done anything for them and the the Dems are a group of intellectuals that look down their noses at them. The Biden administration Infrastructure bill, it's huge success creating jobs and bringing down inflation better than any other country did not get any recognition among many of the millions that voted MAGA. Democratic real help to these people was not effectively sold to them as having happened.
You(and BTC) nailed it, Marcus! Disinformation cost us the election, and it's going to get worse with MAGA in charge. Any mainstream media that doesn't toe Trump's line will be silenced.
I'm a naval historian who's area of expertise is the German navy in WWI and WWII. Trump and MAGA are taking instructions right out of the NAZI rule book; theirs is the Joseph Goebbels Big Lie thesis: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” A second NAZI thesis that Trump is keen to adopt is the Hitler Oath. Trump's enthusiasm for Hitler's generals was a product of the oath he required all German military swear, not to the German state but to himself; "I swear to you, Adolf Hitler, as Führer and Chancellor of the German Reich, that I will be loyal and brave. I pledge obedience unto death to you and those you appoint to lead. So help me God." The oath was renewed publicly at an annual ceremony.
It's a tragedy that despite tRumPutin's dyslexia and lack of interest toward knowledge in general, he chose to study Hitler and how he took control of his country. He doesn't want to use the power to help or improve the country in any way; he only wants power for its own sake, and to enrich himself. Typical of all malignant narcissist dictators, not only Hitler. I'm sure his "friendship" with Putin is the type of mentor & protégé relationship that benefits them both. It will be very revealing to see who they include in their authoritarian club.
Great observation Paula! We are not surprised are we? The only questions now that the new Hitler is in fact in power, whether the remaining democratic institutions in our country will be able to hold back the actual installation of fascist structures and repression. We are now living the greatest threat to our Constitutional system of government since the Civil War.
It's actually worse than the Civil War, because this will have evil consequences for the entire planet.
Hey Brian, I hate like hell to say this, but I really think the reason those 16M voters who went for Biden in 2020 that didn't come out for Harris may be as simple (and utterly dismaying) as skin complexion and gender.
Trump won on hate and discontent.
Harris ran a stellar campaign, she said all of the right things that needed to be said, she had all of the right stuff for most Democrats and even a handful of Republicans. I thought she was going to blow this election clean out of the water.
The vote should have been an open shut case to just keep the most unqualified President ever out of office for the good of the country.
But both 2016 and 2024 have one thing in common- a woman running for President. And one was a black woman at that.
I am disgusted that the USA cannot do better handling it's prejudice and bigotry.
I truly hate to think I am even remotely correct; but the election was obviously NOT about issues and policies.
For far too many Americans it was nothing more than prejudice.
EXCELLENT points. We do not want a blind MAGA type Democratic Party. We do need to pull together to move forward.
Couldn't agree more Brian - the debrief on the election is exhausting and mostly unhelpful. Your core belief about the need for loud Dem mouthpieces is what I'm focusing on - we have to get our awesome message to reach farther that to us political geeks. You're a leader in this!
I could not agree more, Brian. I live in Washington State and am proud of my state's liberal bona fides. The way Democrats criticize Marie Glusencamp-Perez often makes me cringe. Sure, I wish she were as liberal as I am. But she votes the way she does because she MUST to be elected. Now that she has defeated one of the vilest MAGA candidates in the country--twice, by a larger margin the second time than the first, and in one of the few districts here that went for trump--maybe Democrats will give her some grace (and breathing space). She's young, she's smart, she's articulate--and she knows how to convince younger people without college degrees that there is a place for them in the Democratic Party.
Well said. Purity doesn't get things passed. Democracy is a dialogue: Democrats welcome the LOYAL Opposition. Loyal means working under law in the true sprit of the Constitution.
Very well said, Mr. Cohen. Circular firing squads don't help get our coalition back on track. Worse (pardon the mixed metaphor), they encourage Trumplicans to pour salt into our (self-inflicted) wounds.
OMG. I want to shout this from the roof tops. THIS is why democrats can't get it together and it's just become even worse with the younger generations. I had this argument with my daughter when she refused to vote for Hillary because "there were too many things that bothered her" and AGAIN this election because of Kamala's refusal to speak out ffor Palestinians. I tried to explain that we are not every single person going to have the perfect candidate for us bit we damned sure know who the candidate we DON'T want so she refused to vote altogether.
Now, my 11 year old granddaughter will pay the cost for the intolerance of her mixed race, gay mother. 😪
I'm getting increasingly frustrated with how small the Overton Window is. This slow train wreck of a civilization is grinding down in a death spiral, while a few work feverishly to get the attention of adolescent mobs seeking attention for its own sake. The darkness descends and we're lighting candles.
Well said, Charley!
73 years old here. Just before I was drafted I became extremely political. Go figure. I have voted for the corporate Reagan Democrat type candidate that the establishment Democrat Party has given us. I have religiously voted for them even though they stink. You know this party used to at least pretend really they were the party of the working class. But the Reagan Democrat Party has left people like me behind. Bernie Sanders AOC and a handful of others are the only ones that espoused the Democratic party that I was raised on. And a bunch of you younger folks seem to think we should make friends with the Nazis and understand them. You know be tolerant. That is all that our Democratic Leadership has done for the last four decades. Meanwhile the party has moved incrementally to the right with every step the right wing has moved further towards fascism/nazism / oligarchy/theocracy.
We lost because Clinton Obama Biden and candidate Harris are only in touch with their corporate donors and trying to be friends with their hated enemy across the aisle. And they started the BS that Biden is the most Progressive president in history. Absolute nonsense. The only time the Democratic establishment reaches out is about 3 months before a serious presidential election. Maybe you remember Obama trying to make a grand bargain by giving the right wing everything they wanted. They were too power hungry to agree. Obama spent four years bending over for the right wing . In his second term he politely agreed that that may have been a mistake and then continued doing so . Obama a Reagan democrat, didn't let the Bush senior tax cuts for the oligarchy expire. Obama , Clinton and Biden all pretended to be for the public school system all the while supporting all kinds of monies going to Charter Schools and private schools . They wholeheartedly support the religious Taliban in this country . Why else would they continue to go to the families National Prayer Breakfast Etc. I remember clearly when Obama came out and said he just wasn't willing to give Folk the same rights as heterosexual folks. Clinton Obama and Biden have all been willing to cut Social Security Medicare and any of the other insurance funds that we invest in for the people.
Biden reluctantly decided to throw a bone of a minuscule relief of some student debt that would have taken the moving of mountains for people to actually qualify for. He had to be dragged Kicking and Screaming to that. Now I know because I'm a realist, that the Supreme Court is not going to allow anything that benefits the 99%. Alito famously announced that he would never rule positively for anything that benefited the Democrats.
So let's just be tolerant pay attention to what the Nazis and theocrats want and let them lead us into the light, right?
When I vote for/elect a Democrat, I expect they rule as a Democrat. Just like the right wing rules like right Wingers.
Why should any of us who aren't blue dogs, expect our leadership to rule as a republican light?
As an example, embracing Liz Cheney was a mistake of epic proportions and all too familiar behavior from the Reagan Democrat power structure. The Reagan democrats continually pursue the Unicorn of a significant amount of right Wingers who are going to vote for Democrats. They spend more time attacking progressives than they do their friends across the aisle. Let me tell you that tolerating their intolerance has been a epic mistake. And now Brian and many other Talking Heads are promoting that. The right wing played the long game. Decades long. And they won. There is no taking back the country without serious intervention. And I can tell by the posters on this forum that they don't take that seriously. The one and only thing that will save us is if Biden immediately comes out and says because of National Security issues he has ordered the arrest Trump and every other right winger who participated in the Insurrection and their funding billionaires. And that includes the Supreme Court. The Democrats should have never let them get away with their second attempt or third attempt at a coup. I hear a lot about bringing up the past. The past is important. The right Wingers tried to destroy FDR. The Supreme Court gave George Bush Jr AKA mini Trump the presidency. And now they have ruled that presidents have immunity and could order an Insurrection because they felt it was best for the country. Knock knock? Anybody getting the message yet.
The Democratic Leadership never misses an opportunity to not message. They could have spent the last four or five decades playing the long game in the red States aka the Confederacy, so that we got a power structure in those States. But no. As I said before, they keep trying to reach out to right Wingers while pushing progressives away. Progressives who are the real old Democrats who want a party of the working class are considered extremists by all you Center Reagan democrats.
Paradox of tolerance
The paradox of tolerance was described by Karl Popper in 1945. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant.
"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
.
Good point about the purity test for a diverse big tent diverse of thought is important. In all these postmortem from you and other will be good to add analysis about losing four million from one election to the next.
Thanks, Brian, for sharing one of the few adult perspectives I've read on Democratic party politics.
Even looking at our own individual behaviour, there is usually more than one reason why we make the choices we do. You may go to a gym to be healthier, to lose weight, to look better, and to meet people. When studying a group of people it is even more obvious that there is rarely only one reason that motivates choices. The larger and more diverse the group, the more reasons there are. Misinformation is a big one that must be addressed, pro or anti on various issues, no doubt misogyny and racism and ageism. A little bit of this and a little bit of that.
But the thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the effect of fear and anxiety. I noticed people asking on various platforms, “What happens if Trump loses, what can he do?” Images of the January 6 attack on the Capitol, beating officers with flag poles, the noose waiting for Pence were still being shown on mainstream and social media; every report on Ukraine and Garza showing buildings turned to rubble, children’s’ swaddled bodies, food lines; trump saying it would be bloody if he lost, magas saying it was time for a civil war; trump talking about nuclear war and putin talking about using nuclear weapons on Ukraine. Lots of trump threats telling people to be afraid.
Did people ask themselves which am I more afraid of: what he might do if he wins or what he could do if he loses? For people living in an anxious age that could be a paralyzing choice to make. And so they stayed home.